#Jiang Cheng bashing

[celestialwangxian]

I'm not entirely new to the MDZS fandom, as I've loved WangXian for what feels like eons now, but I admit I've yet to make any friends I can discuss MDZS stuff with, since I'm shy as hell. But desperate times call for desperate measures, so I'm finally just going to type this up and then close my eyes as I post this in hopes of fixing that, lol.

I'll add a bit more about me in the tags, but if you also share the following with me, please like this post, reblog it, reply to it, or just straight up send me an ask or IM, because even though I haven't written fanfics in years now, I have fic ideas, thoughts, and others stuff that I'd really like to discuss with others!

Liking only top!Lan Wangji / bottom!Wei Wuxian.

Disliking the Jiang family very much (Yanli excluded).

Side-eyeing the major clans, Jiang and Lan included.

Sometimes wanting to punch Lan Xichen in the face for listening to Jin Guangyao over his own little brother, among other reasons.

Oftentimes wanting to yell at Lan Qiren for being a hypocrite, among other reasons too.

[kshithi-and-stories]

Chapters: 1/18 Fandom: 魔道祖师 - 墨香铜臭 | Módào Zǔshī - Mòxiāng Tóngxiù, 陈情令 | The Untamed (TV) Rating: Explicit Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings Relationships: Lán Zhàn | Lán Wàngjī/Wèi Yīng | Wèi Wúxiàn, There are surprise pairings Characters: Lán Zhàn | Lán Wàngjī, Wèi Yīng | Wèi Wúxiàn, Lán Huàn | Lán Xīchén, Lán Qǐrén, Jiāng Chéng | Jiāng Wǎnyín, Jiāng Yànlí, Wēn Qíng (Módào Zǔshī), Wēn Níng | Wēn Qiónglín, Yú Zǐyuān, Jiāng Fēngmián, all the mo dao zu shi characters Additional Tags: Established Relationship, Yúnmèng Jiāng Sect Bashing (Módào Zǔshī), Jiāng Chéng | Jiāng Wǎnyín Bashing, Lan sect critical, Cultivation World Critical, Jin sect bashing, Nei sect critical, Wei Ying starts green revolution, Yú Zǐyuān Bashing, Jiāng Fēngmián Bashing, Jiāng Fēngmián and Yú Zǐyuān Bashing, Wei Ying yeets out of cultivation world, Sunshot Campaign (Módào Zǔshī), Inventor Wèi Yīng | Wèi Wúxiàn, Rogue Cultivator Wèi Yīng | Wèi Wúxiàn, Jiāng Fēngmián Doesn't Adopt Wèi Yīng | Wèi Wúxiàn, Immortal Husbands, Yílíng Lǎozǔ Wèi Yīng | Wèi Wúxiàn Summary:

Yet another time travel story. Wei Ying just says no to the Jiangs, Sunshot campaign, and cultivation sects in general. But very much in love with his husband though.

It is Wei Ying's journey to become the legend himself.

[lazybunny2024]

Yeah because people are just really camperable to dogs right right so doing what's right and paying ones debt is really horrible and irresponsible thing to do because saving your sister crush and your own crush is really reckless thing to do because cutting one part your body and giving it away is nothing compared to all so called generosity of barr minimum you're giving to your sworn brother's son and let's not forget the wiping with a first class weapon which use on monsters and criminals and not on children because the oh so kind and brave madam yu wanted to show wwx love but was too oblivious to understand it right you're so right, and let's not forget about how wwx wasn't allowed to even asked about his parents and should listen how their memory soat upon and mock by anyone, it's also only natural to declare your brother the enemy of cultivation world, and it's ok to lead a siege to your brother just to spit on your sister sacrifice,bravoooo

Really tell me if you had child and the got whipped daily just for being a child and similar to you would you say yes it's my child fault wipe them some more plz

If I'm being honest to me the people who likes jc either likes his look or they didn't read novel and only read fanfic

Really is really ok for jc to go around and kill and tournament people who look and do as wwx did. have you ever considered how many of those people were innocent and had family back home if he truly hated demonic cultivators why didn't he do anything about xue yang only nmj stood to kill him where was all those barks about him hating demonic cultivators.

And you tell me jc always gave and gave and gave what did he give exactly? Other than saving wwx from wens he didn't defend, always saying he was the reason his family is dead, almost strangled him, killing his family in burial mounds and only didn't kill his son because he couldn't finde him even if he found him who know what would he do might be like his mother keep him around and use as a wipe boy like wwx.

Tell me just what's so good about jc after everything i just said

in awe of the donghua for slapping "Jiang Cheng had to give up his dogs as a child so that Wei Wuxian could live with him in Lotus Pier" into the same episode as "Wei Wuxian refuses to give up the Wen dogs Clan Remnants so that he can live with Jiang Cheng in Lotus Pier".

Really hammering that nail home about how Jiang Cheng has repeatedly given up everything he reasonably can for Wei Wuxian, and how Wei Wuxian (with one major exception) simply does not do the same. Wei Wuxian does whatever he thinks is right, and does not evaluate the collateral damage of those choices.

His major exception, his one major sacrifice that's done explicitly for Jiang Cheng, is something that he grapples with for the entire rest of the story and which Jiang Cheng is barred from knowledge of until the end, preventing Jiang Cheng from being able to feel that there's been any kind of reciprocity between them. From his perspective, he has given and given and given while Wei Wuxian has simply done whatever the fuck he wants forever, and the second that interfered with the Jiang Clan he... simply left the Jiang Clan. From his perspective, actively prevented from knowledge that would prove him wrong (which he WANTS, by the way, he WANTS to be wrong), Wei Wuxian has taken and taken and taken, and then fucking left.

Anyway they're both right and they're both wrong and I love their messy complicated relationship and the donghua's choice to put these two scenes back to back was HUGE brained

[tea-cat-arts]

Sometimes I wonder what Jiang Cheng could've become if his parents didn't instill a mix of "crippling fear of failure" and "impossibly high standards" in him. Cuz like, his dad was holding him to the vague standard of being as good as wwx, his mom yelling at him whenever he goofed around like wwx, and then both of them expressed disappointment when he's less successful than wwx. The thing both of them seem to ignore though is that wwx got where he is entirely because he had the freedom to fuck around and find out- he trained tirelessly because he made training fun for himself, he was innovative as a cultivators because he experimented and persisted through failures, and he was able to act in line with the Jiang clan moto because his actions had less political pull than members of the main family. Jiang Cheng on the other hand- if he fucked around he got told to "stop stooping to the level of servants." If his achievements were lesser than wwx's, he got either dismissed by his dad or yelled at by his mom to try harder. And if he picked fights with the Wens, they'd have an excuse to destroy his clan. Like ya- no shit that'd create an adult who's terrified of failure.

The kite game serves as such a good metaphor/embodiment of this set back- with Jiang Cheng never being able to shoot as far as Wei Wuxian because he pulls back and shoots closer the second he misses.

And its sad too because he's shown to be pretty brilliant when he's in "fuck it, we ball" mode. Like, when he's not freezing up, he manages to pull off things like rebuilding his entire clan from the ground up, leading armies and taking back territories from the Wens, and I'm fairly sure he's the only character we see counter the Lan music cultivation techniques (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on that last one. Also feel free to add any of the other cool shit he did that I'm blanking on at the moment, cuz I know I'm forgetting something).

That being said- even with his anxiety, he's still one of the top cultivators. Imagine what a force of nature he'd be if he could sustain "fuck it we ball" mode

[qiu-yan]

ok so i had this thought after reading other people's thoughts on the ship. but the amount of jiggy-bashing in postcanon xicheng fics makes absolutely no sense, just on a fundamental internal-consistency level?

arguably THE central thesis of postcanon xicheng is that lan xichen and jiang cheng have been through similar experiences: both trusted and were betrayed by a brother-figure, who was then persecuted and killed by the cultivation world, and who is now considered an evil monster by the cultivation world. both characters are credited with and praised for killing this brother figure by the general public, even though their actual feelings on the brother figure are incredibly complex.

regardless of whether you think this thesis is true or not, if you take this thesis to its logical conclusion, then the jiggy-bashing in postcanon xicheng fics makes no sense. jiang cheng rolls up and goes "rip dude your ex sucked shit" and that makes lan xichen happy? that helps lan xichen heal? if lan xichen really is where jiang cheng was after the first siege of the burial mounds 13 years ago, then no way. absolutely not.

after all, if someone had rolled up to jiang cheng during the 13-year timeskip and went "rip dude your ex sucked shit," that would not have made jiang cheng happy in the long run. that would not have helped him heal. jiang cheng was the one actively telling himself that his ex-whatever sucked shit, and it made him miserable. the entire cultivation world was telling jiang cheng that his ex-whatever sucked shit, and it made him miserable! so, if you want the central xicheng thesis of "their experiences parallel each other" to be true, the same reasoning has to also apply here to lan xichen - literally everyone else and their mom is already bashing jiggy, so additional jiggy-bashing is not going to make lan xichen happy in the long run.

in my opinion, you can absolutely make postcanon xicheng work. imo there is absolutely stuff to work with, even before getting into all the hilarious BIL drama. but a postcanon xicheng that heavily features jiggy bashing simply does not make sense.

[randomness-is-my-order]

hating/criticising jiang cheng for his canonical shitty behaviour is not “bashing” like girl, he wasn’t written in a way to be likeable as a person and anyone bringing that up or expressing their dislike for him doesn’t make them an unreasonable cynic incapable of seeing his “goodness” like pls let’s have some sense here; calling jin guangshan a predatory sleazebag is not “bashing” because that’s literally his canonical reading, just the way calling jiang cheng an asshole manchild is literally his characterisation in the book. bashing is what you’d call the bad faith call-outs towards characters like wei wuxian where the hate is moreso a result of intense personal bias than actual source material backing. bashing is where you make an unnecessary mockery out of characters who don’t seem to deserve it. but rightfully disliking jiang cheng & making a post about it is not bashing and people need to stop thinking that being unsympathetic towards an antagonistic figure needs a thesis to justify the dislike, otherwise it’s illogical nonsense––because the thesis already exists and it’s called mdzs.

[sonik-kun]

"Jiang Cheng is classist"

Okay, and? That's hardly the biggest crime in a book where there are *checks notes*

Murderers, war criminals, rapists and corpse desecrators to name a few..

Not to mention, most of the main cast were elitists anyway and/or did nothing to help the lower classes (yes, even our main couple had some form of privileges over the lower classes and did little to help them in terms of social reform.)

Arguably, the only person who did help and consider the average joe was Jin Guangyao. Beyond his watchtower scheme he set up, the rest of the cultivation world couldn't give a fiddler's fuck about the poor.

Could be because it's a cultivator's primary duty to protect the cultivation world from imminent threat as opposed to wholesale, social reform? But eh, I could be wrong.

Either way, my point remains. Using Jiang Cheng's "classism" as an "ooh gotcha" is just silly to me when our hero's end game is with a rich dude, being fucked raw and spoiled rotten all day, every day. Hardly the actions of a working class hero, but meh. Valid of him tbh. Lmao.

[marshmallowwitharubberband]

So, imagine you have a sibling.

This sibling is pretty cool. They stay in their lane, never cause any trouble, they're dependable, they're steadfast, and the only truly consistent positive thing in your life, considering your non-ideal family situation.

You really love your sibling, and show it in your own way, confident that they understand.

Then, imagine said sibling falls in love with some guy. And, on the surface, that's good. The guy is good looking, talented, on the top five most wanted bachelors, has pretty high cultivation, and comes from a powerful clan. It's a good prospect.

But then you meet him in person and he is cocky, acts haughty, doesn't show much respect for others' feelings, and you don't really understand what your sibling sees in him. But you support your sibling, if that's what will make them happy.

However, as time passes, this guy not only keeps acting like the opposite of what you hold as good and important values, he just keeps rejecting and hurting your sibling, sometimes in public, for added humiliation.

Yet, your sibling keeps trying, because they truly love him.

Every time you see your beloved sibling go out full of determination to seek this man, and come back with heartbreak written all over their eyes, your need to punch the guy just increases.

The rumors about this guy's parent and their unseemly conduct are really not helping, even though you're not one to listen to rumors, or blame the sons for their parents' sins.

But, as this man keeps doing worse and worse things and you keep seeing your sibling bending over backwards to try and get the message across that they love him, only to be pushed away over, and over, and over, you find yourself really disliking this dude.

The moment you saw your sibling crying because of him was the moment you went from "I'll keep quiet, because is what my sibling wants" to "wow, fuck that guy!"

You've seen all that your sibling has done and endured for even one sliver of this man's attention and it hurts you that this guy doesn't appreciate it.

So, your dear sibling will have to forgive you if you are more than a little sceptical when the dude finally deigns to look in your sibling's direction and understand what he has been missing.

Forgive you for not being exactly ecstatic that he is *finally* willing to try and treat your sibling the way they deserve, and appreciate all the love, all the pieces of themselves they have been pouring out for this fucker.

Finding out his rejection was out of obliviousness rather than malice somehow feels worse.

But as long as Shijie/Wangji is happy, you're willing to try and forgive him.

[likethexan]

mdzs dad alignment chart thingy

[montysoup]

Sobbing, crying and wailing. The fic I just read has made me feel more than I've ever felt. One moment I'm punched in the gut and the next I'm smiling hysterically.

Genuinely feel like I've been emotionally edged, it's sad enough to punch the feelings into you but happy enough to keep you from tears.

I'm breaking at the fucking seams.

I'm a second away from a breakdown. I'm a second away from painting thanks to the inspiration this fic has given me. I'm a second away from sleeping cause this fic was 180k words and I started it at 10am and just finished it.

This fic is 'Audience of one' by WinterDreams on ao3 for those interested!

[mifeng-xiaojie]

So I've recently seen the take that when WWX hits JL it's totally different and fine because it's "playful", it didn't even hurt, and he praised JL afterward! To me, this is like saying that it's totally fine to shove someone who suffers from hydrophobia into the pool if you're just playing and you praise them for not drowning afterward. If JL was actually a victim of long term CA like antis love to claim, then he will have trauma around being hit. Regardless of it hurts or not, the act itself would be triggering. Playful or not, in this situation, the only ones who found it funny were WWX and the waitress that witnessed it. Which brings me right back around to the fact that there has always been witnesses whenever JC does hit JL, just like there was a waitress there when WWX hit him. So all of these people are witnessing abuse, but not saying anything, or in the case of the waitress, laughing?

WWX was there for at least 2 of the times that JC hit JL. So he can outright attack JC for disrespecting LWJ, but he won't say anything at all or try to defend JL when he sees JC allegedly abusing him? Even if he wasn't present for those times, with the rumor mill that runs rampant in their society, if JL was actually being abused, people would talk about it. He'd hear of it eventually. Yet, he at no point confronts JC about it or even asks JL if he's ok or otherwise shows any concern for him.

At least in my arguments, I try to give the out of accepting that in the time and cultural setting, no one views JC's discipline method as abuse. That it's normal to them. But antis keep insisting on arguing that JL is being horribly and traumatically abused, and the more they continue with it, the worse it makes WWX look and the worse it makes THEM look. I'll reiterate. You should not be hitting someone you know is a victim of abuse, playful or otherwise. And WWX definitely knows that JC has hit his nephew. It's just apparently not an immediate concern like going off to fuck in a bush somewhere is, right?

The sad thing is, while most JC stans and antis won't agree on whether or not JC's treatment of JL is abuse, we can at least agree on one thing. Grown ass men need to keep their hands and their creepy ass silencing spells to themselves and off of teenagers.

[jiangchengisapurpleraccoon]

yo any jiang antis around? im not talking about fans who like canon jiang cheng but are being pushed around into tagging their vanilla posts about how jc is in the source material as 'anti', im talking about people who actually hate the fuck out of him and want to bash his character i for one need more fics where wwx or wn kill jc because they hold a grudge over the siege, i need more of those fics, but ive only found few or where he gets backstabbed by the jins right after and jiang sect gets assimilated into theirs, or even aus where wwx was never a part of jiang sect and as a result their sect crumbles and never recovers from wen attack (with exception of yanli getting the short end of the stick of course)

[withthewindinherfootsteps]

Wang LingJiao used the chance to scramble out. She took out a cylinder of fire-light from her lapels and shook it a few times. A light shot out of the cylinder. Along with a sharp whistle, it rushed out of the wooden window and exploded in the sky outside. Then, she fumbled out a second one, a third one. Hair tangled, she mumbled, “Come… Come… Come here… Everyone, come here!” Through the pain, Wei WuXian pushed Jiang Cheng, “Stop her from sending any more signals!” Jiang Cheng let go of Wei WuXian and lunged in the direction of Wang LingJiao. Yet, at the same time, Wen ZhuLiu was closing in on Madam Yu. He looked as if he was about to knock her down. Jiang Cheng hurried, “Mom!” He immediately gave up on Wang LingJiao and threw himself over. Wen ZhuLiu didn’t even turn his head as he struck, “Not even close!” Jiang Cheng’s shoulder suffered the attack. Blood immediately burst from his mouth. Wang LingJiao had already let out all of the signal fire-lights. Sharp whistles and bright sparks filled the entire grey-blue sky. - Chapter 58, EXR

It's quite interesting how, in this moment, Jiang Cheng does exactly what he's always criticised Wei Wuxian of doing: endangering the Yunmeng Jiang sect by 'playing the hero'. That's not what either of them are doing, of course – it isn't a motivation for Jiang Cheng here, it's not a motivation for Wei Wuxian anytime else, and the motivations they have definitely make sense – but it's exactly the sort of behaviour Jiang Cheng would criticise Wei Wuxian for, with those exact words.

Yet, no character ever criticises him for this – Wei Wuxian doesn't, even when it was his (necessary) advice that was disregarded; Madam Yu doesn't, even when her sect suffered as a consequence. Even when it very likely played a role in Lotus Pier's downfall (at least in getting a lot of Wen sect cultivators to get there very fast), it's never brought up by any character ever again... whereas Wei Wuxian's action of saving Lan Wangji, Jin Zixuan and Mianmian in the Xuanwu cave constantly is, even when the Wen sect was pretty certainly going to attack Lotus Pier anyway*. That's not to say Jiang Cheng should be blamed for the fall of Lotus Pier, either – that's on the Wen sect, and regardless of both of their actions, the attack was probably going to be a success. And can we blame someone for making a panicked decision protect his mother? – but one's action is definitely more direct than the other, and it's not the one that's constantly blamed.

The aim, though, isn't to compare the actions so much as the attitudes of the people involved, and this is another little detail that shows the imbalance in Wei Wuxian and Jiang Cheng's dynamic. Again, Wei Wuxian doesn't say anything about this afterwards, and doesn't seem to blame him, even when it's his words that were disregarded, and when the Jiang sect and Lotus Pier were undoubtedly very important to him as well. Which is good! That's a good thing and definitely the healthier option for both of them! If the roles were flipped, and Wei Wuxian saved a(n admittedly non-Yu Ziyuan) person, disregarding Jiang Cheng's orders while leading to more danger falling on Lotus Pier? Jiang Cheng would never stop blaming him or bringing it up. Even after the many years that passed between then and Wei Wuxian's resurrection, he still blames Wei Wuxian for the fall of Lotus Pier due to his actions in the Xuanwu cave** – once again, a much less direct scenario.

--

*Very strategic location (trade hub etc), they attacked the Cloud Recesses already, Jiang Cheng's internal narration literally admits this:

In his heart, Jiang Cheng knew clearly that back in the cave of the Xuanwu of Slaughter at Dusk-Creek Mountain, even if Wei WuXian hadn’t saved Lan WangJi, the Wen Sect would have found some reason to come over sooner or later. But he had always felt that, if the whole thing with Wei WuXian didn’t happen, maybe it wouldn’t have been so soon, maybe there would’ve been some way to turn things around - Chapter 59, EXR

Yet there was some time between the end of the Wen indoctrination and the Fall of Lotus Pier, and we never even saw attempts at security adjustments!

**As we see in the Ancestral Hall:

Jiang Cheng mocked, “Look how forgetful you are. What does unwelcome people mean? Then let me remind you. It was because you played the hero and saved Second Young Master Lan, who’s standing beside you right now, that the entire Lotus Pier and my parents went down with you." - Chapter 87, EXR

[halenhusky309]

Imagine calling people misogynistic because people hate on a fictional man who is by default misogynistic in the novel...

This is a next level of pickmeisha that even pick-me girls haven't even reached.

[qiu-yan]

reasons for jiang cheng's wife requirement list, ranked from least to most funny

ONE: least funny - he's a misogynist

TWO: he's obsessed with how people view him so he put the maximally socially acceptable answer

THREE: he doesn't actually know what he wants / he wants something socially unacceptable, so he put the maximally socially acceptable answer

FOUR: doylist reason, ver. 1 - mxtx just said that to be funny and didn't put too much thought into it...i mean she also said that lan xichen eventually happily marries a woman lmao

FIVE: he misses jiang yanli

SIX: he's scared of his mom so he put the pure opposite of her

SEVEN: he put the pure opposite of wei wuxian

EIGHT: he put the pure opposite of wei wuxian because he's in denial

NINE: doylist reason, ver. 2 - convergent evolution of misogyny: mxtx said so in an interview because she wanted jiang cheng to be a Haha Sexist, but she also made jiang yanli a Too Pure For This World High-Impact Fridged Woman instead of an actual character. since these instances of deliberately invoked misogyny vs accidental misogyny come from the same person, jiang cheng's wife requirement list ends up resembling jiang yanli purely by accident, unintentionally making him look like a siscon

TEN: most funny - he actually is a siscon

[admirableadmiranda]

Hello! I really enjoy reading your posts, especially the Jiang Cheng posts. I'm actually noticing an absurd pattern regarding many blogs who post about him. When referring to people who use Jiang Cheng's pain and grief as an excuse to justify him torturing innocents and leading the siege, they are referred as "JC stans."

However, should they not be called as anti-fans or toxic fans? Because in whitewashing his character, they are doing a disservice by making him an uninteresting or a one-dimensional character.

Jiang Cheng is a likeable character because although we can understand the depths of his grief and suffering, we cannot justify his actions as trauma responses.

What am I to call myself, then? I'm someone who enjoyed the complexity of Jiang Cheng's character and like both canon and fanon takes, but I also do not excuse his horrible actions.

It's confusing liking a morally grey character, after all.

(Additional note: I'm currently reading TGCF, and have not begun MDZS novels. I have watched the donghua and Untamed and know that his character was softened.)

Hi! Glad to hear you enjoyed my posts.

Honestly, the reason why I call them JC stans is because that is what they called themselves first. They were happy to say it when there weren’t as many people calling them out for whitewashing the character and demonizing the others around him because of how they responded to their actions, I got called an anti and a hater for not approving of this course of action especially as Jiang Cheng himself became unrecognizable to the character they put forth, it is very much a form of stanning. It goes far beyond a regular fan status and starts to take on almost obsessive qualities. A stan is a toxic fan, it’s not really a label you want to bear with pride.

(Admittedly calling them antis would probably be funny, but I just don’t have the energy to continue to embroil myself in fandom fights and I prefer to stay in my corner. But your point stands that they are not exactly fans of the character himself, given that all of his actions are excused, erased or justified away and many of his personality traits are stripped to make a more palatable flat character instead of the rich one with depth in canon)

I would say just call yourself a fan. I respect people who like him as he is. He is not without his interesting qualities, he serves the story incredibly well as a personal antagonist to Wei Wuxian and he is not without depth. There really isn’t anything wrong with enjoying fanon. I have enjoyed some jc fanon takes in my day and will probably enjoy more in the right stories. You’re aware of him as he is, so what’s wrong with calling yourself a fan of him? Own the word with pride. You like Jiang Cheng, both in his canon form and with some fanon around him. What’s so wrong with that?

(Welcome to MXTX fandom! It’s an interesting place at times, sometimes a little stressful. I hope you enjoy tgcf! If you’d like access to the Exiled Rebels Translation as well, just send me a message and I can hook you up with another translation)